Wednesday, December 28, 2016

Decision-Making in Facebook Groups

The only weapon against the 1% is democracy.  To save our planet, we must develop a form of democracy that is much more democratic than the democracy we have. 

Current affairs have taught us that the rich, and the politicians, are often corrupted by their power, and obscenely selfish.  We have learned that representative democracy is corruptible, and therefore will be corrupted.   We now know that our important decisions are being made to serve these powerful people, instead of serving us and our planet.

To survive, we must build a new democracy that is a flat democracy.  It must be so democratic that no one person will have more power than any other person.  

I offer these Rules of Order as an example of such a flat democratic system.

Proposal for Rules of Order for Facebook Groups

For democratic Public Facebook groups that follow these Rules, there will be four levels of participation:

1.  Observers.  Observers cannot participate in the group beyond observing.  They can see the members and the members' participation.  They cannot post, comment, reply, react, or vote.  This is explained below in Dissonant Participants.

2.  Participants.  This the initial state of all new group members.  Participants may post, comment, reply, and react in the group.

3.  Voters.  Any Participant is a Voter if the Participant has posted, commented, replied, and/or reacted in the group at least once a week for the last 4 weeks; and has registered by paying $.01 via a verified Paypal account.  The Paypal account information is so that we can be sure that each Voter has only one identity and one vote.  Leaders are also Voters, as described next.

4. Leaders.  Any Voter who has posted or commented at least twice a week for the last 8 weeks.


Only Leaders can initiate polls.

Only Voters can vote.

All Participants can comment, reply, and react to a poll question.

Voters can change their votes as discussion and vote statistics develop. The ability to change one's votes is crucial to enabling the coalescence of group opinion.

Voter Participation Quota

These rules depend on the Voters Participation Quota or VPQ.

Voter participation is defined as commenting, replying, reacting, voting and/or re-voting on the poll question in the poll question's post.  The VPQ is defined as the number of Voters participating, (not the number of participating actions), divided by the total number of Voters at the time of the calculation.  Comments, replies, and reactions from Participants who are not Voters, although welcome, do not count toward the VPQ.

In the rules below, we use two types of VPQ:

  • Accumulated VPQ, which is the number of Voters who have participated since the poll's inception, divided by the total number of Voters at the time when the VPQ is calculated. 
  • Restricted VPQ, which is restricted to a certain time period.  If the VPQ must be 20% over the past week, the VPQ is calculated by the number of Voters who have participated in the last week divided by the number of Voters at the time of the calculation.

Voters who have lost their Voter status at the time of the VPQ calculation, for any reason, will not be counted in the VPQ.  If they have voted in the poll, their vote will disappear from the system.  Their comments, replies, and reactions will remain. 

Public/Private Polls

Only polls designed for choosing a person or persons can be Private, but may not be, depending on the author's choice.  In Private polls, the votes themselves are not visible to anyone, except each Voter can see and change their own vote.  Visible, however, is whether or not each Voter has voted.  The poll statistics for a Private poll become public once 10% of the current Voters have voted; the votes themselves are never Public.

All polls designed for anything other than chosing a person or persons are Public, i.e. Votes, votes, and statistics are visible to everyone.

Pinned Polls

Pinning posts is Facebooks process of forcing a particular post to remain at the top of the feed for the group.  Many posts can be pinned at the same time.

Polls that have a accumulated a VPQ of 10% become "pinned" for the first time.  

The unpinning and repinning rules are different for each poll type and is explained below.

Standing Out Of The Poll

All polls will have a stand-out-of-the-poll (SOOP) option. Voters who vote SOOP are agreeing to agree with whatever decision is decided by the other Voters.  Until the voting is closed, explained below, the SOOP Voters, as well as all Voters, can change their vote. The Voters who contribute SOOP votes count toward the Voters' participation quota, as do regular Voters who vote their opinion.

A poll can be taken for curiosity, just to know ourselves better; and polls can be created to make a decision.


To make a decision for the group:

1.  The poll, at its inception, must announce itself as a decision-making poll.

2.  The poll must be reach the required accumulated 10% VPQ and therefore be pinned.

*  Yes/No/SOOP polls:

    - Agreement and decision made:

        If, after being pinned for 2 or more weeks, and 30% of the current Voters have voted, agreement is reached if 2/3 of the votes, not including the SOOP votes, are Yes votes or 2/3 of the votes, not including the SOOP votes, are No votes.  The decision is announced, and the Yes/No/SOOP poll is unpinned.

    - No agreement and no decision made:

        If, after being pinned for 2 weeks, neither Yes nor No votes reach 2/3 of the votes, not including the SOOP votes, and the VPQ during the last week is less than 10%, the poll is unpinned.  No decision is taken.  The poll statistics and lack of decision is announced.

*  Multiple Choice Polls:

    Multiple choice polls must:

       1. include a none-of-the-above (NOTA) option as well as a SOOP option.

       2. allow a Voter to add new options to the poll.  All previous Voters will be notified of new options as they are added.

       3. Voters will rank the choices, using 1 for the first choice, 2 for the second choice, etc.

       4. after 2 weeks of being pinned, the poll question is "set", meaning that adding new options is not allowed.

   - Agreement and Decision Made

        If, after at least 2 weeks of being set, and at least 30% of the current Voters voted in the poll, a decision is made according to "Ranked Choice Voting", .  The vote statistics and decision is announced and the multiple choice poll is unpinned.

   - No Agreement and No Decision Made

        If, after at least 2 weeks of being set, if fewer than 30% of the Voters have voted, and the VPQ during the last week is less than 10%, the poll is unpinned.  The lack of decision and the vote statistics are announced.  No decision is taken.

Curiosity Polls

After being pinned for 2 weeks, a curiosity poll, i.e. a poll that was not initially announced as a decision-making poll, becomes unpinned if the VPQ during the last week is less than 10%.  The results of the poll are announced.


A poll will be re-pinned if the VPQ reaches 10% in the last week.

Dissonant Participants

A Participant will be placed in Observer status, thereby causing that Participant to lose the right to participate by:

1.  A Yes/No/SOOP poll is created by any Leader to move a Participant into Observation status. 

2.  Polls for placing a Participant into Observation status follow the same rules as any decision-making Yes/No/SOOP poll, except that there must be 75% agreement for the decision.

The first time a Participant is moved to Observation status, the Observation status lasts for one month.

The second time a Participant is moved to Observation status, the Observation status lasts forever.

Enforcing These Rules

These Rules are to be implemented and enforced by open-source software.  The software itself is to be presented in a text file in the Files section of the Facebook group.

Changing These Rules of Order

Proposed changes to the Rules of Order must follow the same rules as any decision-making Yes/No/SOOP poll, except that there must be 51% agreement for the decision to change a point in these rules.

It is the responsibility of the group's administrator(s) to make the required changes to the Rules, and to cause corresponding changes to be made to the underlying software.

These rules of order will be ratified using these Rules of Order.

Respectfully submitted,

Marilyn Davis, Ph.D.

(Image copyright: Getty Images.  All rights reserved)

Tuesday, August 2, 2016

Irrefutable Logic Showing That If You Fear Global Warming, You Must Not Support Clinton

Yes, Trump doesn't believe in global warming, but that will change. And not believing in global warming at this time is not nearly as destructive to our future as a President who answers to the fossil fuel business.

If we end up with the Donald, he will feel the real burn of global warming soon, and hopefully not too late to try to fix it. 

In contrast, all of Clinton's power is bought by corporations, her hands are tied, and she is powerless to fix global warming. 

Global warming frightens almost everyone, other than Trump.  But, has this widely-held fear pushed corporations to take stock of what they are doing? Of course not. They are corporations, not able and, by law, not allowed to consider the planet and life. They are not human, not animal, just paper-and-ink constructs that have taken control of our governments. 

As the world gets hotter and hotter, if corporations are still at the helm, our planet is cooked. 

If a voter feels the threat of global warming is real, that person must not support Clinton. Clinton, because she is corporate-controlled, is a death sentence for the planet.  She is the greater evil.

Saturday, May 21, 2016

Your Vote Is Sacred

Democracy lives in our hearts, similar to love.

Democracy holds a sense of rightness.  It is the way to be happiest as a community.
The power in democracy can best be understood with the well-studied conclusion: the more democratic the society, the less violent, and the more cooperative.  Less violence shows up in aversion to war, in fewer violent crimes, and in reduced domestic violence.

Quality of life is so much better without violence.  This is what healthy people want. By healthy, I mean, most particularly, those who long for security and beauty for our planet, forever.  Who could want otherwise?

These innate human understandings, love and democracy, are within us because they come from God, or from our DNA-given survival instinct, if those words work better for you.

Love has a sacred and evolutionarily important reason to be within us.  Love is God's communication with each of us to show us what we want as individuals.  Our evolution is dictated by love to whatever degree our unprotected sexual activity is dictated by love.

Like love, democracy has a sacred and evolutionarily important reason to be within us.

Democracy is a contract with God and with your community so that you can act together to find the way to a lovely future. The process itself brings ideas and right decisions, when the participants are truthful.

The most important result of democracy, of a vote, is *not* whom should be president.  The more sacred purpose of a vote is to express your true self and to discover the common identity that we are together -- so we can know and understand and love our community, and grow together.  For this reason alone, it is critical that we each vote the truth of our conscience. Realize that our conscience comes from God, and that the conscience is God's way to show us how to behave, and in particular, how to vote.

There is another reason, more immediate, why it is critically important to vote according to your conscience.

Election cycle after election cycle we have been pressed to vote the lesser of two evils.  As we continually do the repugnant duty of voting for an evil, we reward the political parties for giving us evil choices, and, encouraged by the reward, the parties give us choices that are more and more evil.

Please help to end this downward spiral.

Vote according to your conscience.  Keep your covenant with God.  Whatever else happens, this evil or that evil, do not help it.  Keep your conscience clean.  Vote your truth.

Tuesday, January 20, 2009

The Answer

Two young adults knocked on my door. Their church's youth group had sent them, door to door, to take a survey with three questions.

The first was: what "one thing" is responsible for the wars, corruption, pollution, domestic violence, etc.? They had a very long list of human tragedies, so I had time to be ready with my answer: Overpopulation is responsible.

They were astonished. They had never heard it before. That astonished me.

Next question: is lack-of-spirituality at the root of the problem?

In the light of the previous answer, this question confused me and I declined to respond. We went on to the last question:

Does the bible lead a person to spirituality?

No, bibles and religion are more likely to lead a person away from spirituality. I define "spirituality" as being conscious of one's personal relationship with God. Religious rhetoric, and all language, can help a little sometimes. But words also distract a person from their direct connection to God. Spirituality is sweeter, simpler, more personal than religion.

Predictably, I thought of my answer to question #2 a few minutes after they left. I chased them down.

Lack-of-spirituality is just another tragedy to put on the list of human tragedies in the world. Maybe this loss of connection to God is the worst tragedy of all. But, it is not the cause of the tragedies. The cause is overpopulation, and that is all.

We can make many individual, difficult, efforts to lessen our impact on the environment, to "reduce our carbon footprint". All these efforts: driving hybrids, saving water, vegetarianism, recycling, etc, sum to a molehill compared with the looming mountain of increasing population.

In addition to the obvious environmental impossibilities of increasing overpopulation, there are subtle biological forces at work when the population intensifies and when females are forced to bear young under stress. Discovering these forces, because they are part of us, is as difficult as seeing our own eyes. However, here are a few links that point toward this type of phenomenon in nature:

- Mother rabbits may kill newborns

- Locusts and cannibalism

- Legalized abortion and crime effect

Our population is uncontrolled, or rather, controlled by societal bans and stigmas on abortions and contraceptives. This societal "control" is steering us toward ever-increasing disaster.

The natural and effective way to control population is for society to release control to the individual woman; to support the woman, in any way she wants to be supported.

Saturday, October 4, 2008


You don't get it, you think it's fun.
Any excuse takes you to battle with a gun.

You don't know a thing about the words you say:
"Freedom" and "Democracy", the "American Way".

You don't live it, you've lost yourself
to rhetoric and roles that protect obscene wealth.

Numb to yourself, you spread such pain.
You tear apart loves. You butcher and maim.

A coward follows orders and is proud to kill.
The brave think and act, true to their own will.

Monday, July 28, 2008

The High Sierra

If you are doubtful
that Nature has a Plan,
if you think you should worry
because you are Man

A High Sierra hike
will put all doubt to rest,
Where trial sirens beckon,
"The next sight's the best".

You'll contrast the mountain's
old age, strength, and power,
with the exquisitely intricate
unfolding flower.

And bouquets of wild colors
splashed on the meadow,
smile, wink, and wave
in sunshine and shadow.

Such warm sky and sunshine,
but never enough,
to melt the old snow
in the crag 'neath the bluff.

A challenging trail
leads up to the blue,
where a shimmering lake
patiently waits for you.

Streams and cascades
splash down rocks as they roll
through the valley and leave us
a good fishing hole.

Buzz buzzing bees
all doing their duty,
And mysterious bugs
that redefine beauty.

Lizards and squirrels
take a peek, then are coy.
Plants stretch out their leaves
to offer their joy.

Butterflies flit
up the path on your way.
They're proud to exhibit
their detailed display.

Delighted, you hear
the song of a bird
as she retells the story
that she's always heard.

Your stomach is growling,
nothing's left in your pack.
It's sad to remember
it's time to turn back.

Marilyn Davis
Camping and hiking

Photos by my X.

Sunday, June 29, 2008

The Rejection and Response To It

---------------------------- Original Message ------------
Subject: Re: EVT '08
From: "Marilyn Davis"
Date: Sun, June 29, 2008 11:19 am
To: "David Dill and Tadayoshi Kohno"

Dear EVT '08,

Thank you so much for taking the time to critique my paper.
I was hoping that either it would accepted, or that the
critique would convince me that I'm wrong.

I'm sorry if my lack of knowledge about academia offended
anyone, or my misuse of any technical language. I do
my meaning is always clear.

The big "danger" in Internet Voting is that a reliable
user-controlled identity database and appropriate software
would signify a democratic revolution, one in which the
citizens can overpower corporations and governments to
control pollution, research, and all social programs.

I work in a vacuum because the study of Internet voting is
vacuum. Following the Computer Professionals for Social
Responsibility links: "Voting Technology"->"Internet
only finds: "Right now, no new information". This
is what
they have said since before 2006 when ran
their annual election over the Internet
via email. Having
an Internet election caused a furor in
the organization, and
an attempt to suppress public
knowledge of the
email/Internet election. There were no
accuracy, technology
or privacy problems reported.

It doesn't appear that the reviewers of my paper had
anything factual to say about networks or the DNS. This
a very significant part of the plan; these and that,
whatever evil happens, the voters themselves can see and
repair their votes. This is the new opportunity that the
Internet affords and seems to have been ignored.

The reviewers did make technical complaints that equally
apply to vote-by-mail; they expressed fear that people
themselves are not capable of taking individual
responsibility for their OPIKs; and it seemed to escape
that each individual's degree of privacy is,
her/his own decision.

These new voter responsibilities, i.e., powers, have not
been possible before the Internet.

I believe people are hungry for responsibility and power,
given the state and direction of the earth, and the
of faulty elections which render our votes and
democracy meaningless. Certainly, it is not
academia's job
to hide the existence of the technical
possibilities of this
responsibility and power.

The CAPTCHA, i.e., wiggly character recognition to
if the respondent is human, as explained, is to
successful viruses, as explained. Yes, the
CAPTCHA race is
on. I don't believe reCAPTCHA has been

However, if a CAPTCHA is solved, and a bogus vote entered
via a virus, again, the voter can see this, report it, and
repair it. And, all the other voters can be warned of the
virus and the CAPTHCHA can be changed. Again, the
redundancy of checking, the continued correspondence with
voters, and possibility of fixing, both on-the-fly and
the election, seem to be completely ignored by the

Yes, government-sponsored computer-scientists repeatedly
paint a dismal picture of Internet Voting.

Academics, historically, provide faulty "science" to
the existing power structure: from protecting the
Church by
ignoring the roundness of the earth, to
protecting the
chemical companies by ignoring the dangers
of amalgams,
pheromone-spraying, etc.

It is human nature, not conspiracy, to mimic the status
and to try to please the existing powers. It is the
personal mechanism and is very short-sited, not
taking the
long-term picture into account.

I know that the original government-sponsored study in
"California Internet Voting Task Force", does not
email voting, although they knew that my group
ran the
online version of the Zapatistas' Consulta in
1998. Yet,
originally, (it has been changed) they
discussed retina
scanning, which is frightening to think
about and absolute
nonsense for home voting. The early
version was a very
biased account and the more recent
version only hides the
bias better.

Nowhere, that I can find, are the benefits of networked
voting, email voting, and user-controlled privacy

If there was reasonable academic discussion of these
subjects, being only a teacher and a practical engineer, I
would not have tried to put forward an academic paper.

Thank you again for your time and attention.

Marilyn Davis, Ph.D.

> On Tue, May 20, 2008 10:35 pm, David Dill and Tadayoshi
> Kohno wrote:
> Thank you for submitting the paper identified at the end
> of this email to the 2008 USENIX/ACCURATE Electronic
> Voting Technology Workshop. All papers underwent a
> thorough reviewing process. We regret to inform you that
> your paper was not one of those selected.
> Please find attached the reviewers' comments, which we
> hope is useful to you in your continuing research. Once
> again, thank you for submitting your paper to EVT '08,
> and
we hope that you will be able to attend the
> conference in
San Jose.
> Sincerely,
> David Dill and Tadayoshi Kohno
> EVT '08 Program Co-Chairs
> Title: A Specification for Absolutely Accurate and
> Perfectly Private Election Voting Via the Internet
> Authors: Marilyn Davis
> Email:
> Title: A Specification for Absolutely Accurate and
> Perfectly Private Election Voting Via The Internet
> This paper presents a scheme for voting over the Internet,
> with the possibility of canceling one's online vote and
> instead voting in person. Voter identities are kept
> private by pseudonymization with an "OPIK card", a token
> that allows the voter to vote. Voting is performed by
> email with a confirmation mailback including a CAPTCHA.
> The paper does not frame its problem well, nor does it
> frame its contributions within the existing literature at
> all. The solution presented has a significant number of
> weaknesses even if all assumptions are
> accepted. Furthermore, a number of the assumptions are
> dubious. In addition, the compromises made in the design
> are not justified, as much prior work has achieved the
> desired results without compromising the types of attacks
> this work is willing to accept.
> Thus, I recommend rejecting this paper.
> Even assuming all assumptions are correct, there are a
> number of serious design problems:
> 1) What happens when a voter loses her OPIK card? Since
> OPIK cards can be kept for a few years, and since the
> election administrators don't know which OPIK card to
> cancel, does that mean Alice can no longer vote for up to
> a few years? That is significantly problematic. On the
> other hand, if a voter *can* obtain a new OPIK, how does
> one invalidate the old one, since no one knows which it
> is? If we make the assumption that lost cards won't be
> used, then we open up the system to voter abuse: Alice
> can
falsely claim that she has "lost" her OPIK card and
> get a
new one, thus enabling two votes.
> No matter how this issue is addressed, there seems to be
> a
deep problem with the solution, which implies a
> significant design flaw with the OPIK.
> 2) How can election administrators really be prevented
> from knowing which OPIK card a voter takes? Most voting
> offices will not be overwhelmed with voters if voters
> have
weeks to register, which means it is trivial for a
> voting
administrator to look at the list of OPIK cards
> before
Alice registers, and after she registers, and
> deduce which
OPIK card she took. Devising an actually
> secure process
for OPIK card distribution seems quite
> difficult, and
again this appears to be an inherent
> design flaw.

> 3) If OPIKs are linked to email addresses chosen by the
> voter, it's fairly clear that most voters will choose an
> email address that easily identifies them and that
> election officials will thus know who the voter is.
> 4) Email is unencrypted, which means the contents of the
> vote are available to all of the servers on the path to
> email delivery. That's a serious security issue.
> Digging into the assumptions, there are significant
> problems:
> - The idea that a voter will come up with an anonymous,
> unforgeable scribble is hard to believe. Even signatures
> are relatively easily faked (see credit card fraud), and
> the ease of forging goes up if the scribble is not one
> the
voter is used to writing and thus will have to take
> time
in reproducing.
> - Relying on DNS is a very poor assumption, especially
> given the way DNS has been routinely attacked by
> phishers/farmers. The same attacks can be achieved to
> intercept email, and these attacks are particularly
> easily
done when the target (the community computer)
> is
known. The fact that email is unencrypted and
> unauthenticated makes this even worse, since even a
> pristine community computer would be vulnerable to
> network
spoofers and evil routers.
> - why a CAPTCHA? I don't see what this is trying to
> defend
against. A computer can easily man-in-the-middle
> a
CAPTCHA, and since the voter has the OPIK, a program
> on
its own can't initiate a vote. This seems like a
> conceptual misunderstanding of what CAPTCHAs are for.
> - the author is confused about the meaning of retail
> fraud
vs. wholesale fraud. These terms usually refer to
> the
ability to corrupt a single precinct vs. the entire
> election. Voter coercion does not fit into this pattern,
> as it can be done outside the precinct, especially when
> voting is done online.
> The author should be much more precise about the threat
> model. Not everything falls under "retail" or
> "wholesale."
Coercion and integrity protection are
> different issues.

> - The author implies that it will be tedious to coerce a
> lot of voters, which is untrue: selling votes is trivial
> when the entire voting process can be done online by
> sending your credentials to a coercer. Significant
> evidence exists to show that coercion was rampant before
> the secret ballot was introduced in the late 1800s. There
> is also evidence from Chile in the 1950s that introducing
> the secret ballot radically changed the political
> landscape. The author provides no evidence, only an
> opinion, that coercion is "prohibitively expensive,"
> when
many experts agree it would not be so expensive to
> coerce
enough votes to swing an election.
> - the author is confused about the term "encryption," in
> Appendix D, where the term is used where "cryptography"
> is
probably the intention. The three bullets respectively
> concern authentication, integrity protection, and
> confidentiality. Encryption is only about
> confidentiality.

> - the trade-off between coercion and verification is a
> false one. Much work, specifically in the area of
> open-audit voting and universal verifiability has shown
> how both can be achieved. The author is certainly free to
> dislike those approaches and document the reasons for the
> dislike, but the claim that the trade-off is necessary is
> factually incorrect.
> - there is zero framing of the problem within the
> existing
literature. How does this compare to blind-
> signature based
online voting, e.g. the FOO protocol?
> What about
pre-voting (Rivest), which seems to have some
> important
similarities regarding canceling one's online
> vote?

> - the discussion of network topology and protocols is
> very
haphazard and references no existing work in robust
> network design.
> - bold claims are made without any evidence or even a
> proof sketch. For example: "Internet voting in an open
> vote, open source network offers unprecedented
> opportunity
for election security". How so, when most
> experts believe
Internet voting is highly insecure?
> =======================================================================
> This paper describes a remote voting system which offers
> a
physical analogy to the well-known blind signature
> approach. While it's quite clear that the author has
> put
a lot of time and careful thought into this design,
> it
seems to offer nothing that can't be achieved via
> simpler
and less expensive means while introducing
> additional
assumptions and vulnerabilities.
> The primary drawback of the blind signature approach is
> that it enables election administrators to substitute
> votes of their own choosing for any voters who do not
> cast
votes. Although this threat is briefly discussed
> (appendix c.1.2.2), the mitigations suggested are far
> from
> The entire issue of remote voting is quite controversial,
> and the author creates a false dichotomy by suggesting
> that there is a trade-off between an open-auditing
> approach and an approach that prevents retail coercion.
> While it is very difficult and probably impractical to
> prevent retail coersion in a remote voting system, it is
> certainly possible to have both open-auditability and
> protection from coercion in poll-station voting systems.
> In comparing retail and wholesale fraud, the author makes
> the incredible claim that "... retail fraud is much less
> likely to happen, ..." This is absurd as some retail
> fraud is virtually certain to happen in any election that
> admits more than a small number of remote votes.
> Coercion
is a real problem in elections, and the attempt
> to dismiss
it so easily is misguided. One can certainly
> argue that
the consequences of wholesale fraud are more
> severe, but
to claim that it is more likely than retail
> fraud is
> Claims made about the use of CAPTCHAs are also naive.
> The
idea that needing to recognize a small amount of
> obscured
text will provide security ignores the facts
> that it is
inexpensive for humans to perform these tasks
> and that
machines have generally become quite good at
> this without
> human intervention. Indeed, the entire
> notion of
wholesale attacks that could be inflicted by
> the use of
viruses or exploitation of other
> software/hardware
vulnerabilities seems to be given
> minimal treatment.

> The author should be commended for the care, thought,
> and
effort put into this work, but it is a mistake to
> work in
a vacuum. As is clear from both the text and
> the meager
list of references, the author is not well-
> versed in
related literature on this subject. Any
> credible work on
this subject needs to include a
> thorough comparison to
related work and demonstrate
> clear benefits to all such
related work. This simply
> hasn't benn done here.